Curse

Zakarr · Jul 19, 2005, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by thaumaturge

Use one that you have already used, you won't get + attribute points for it, but you get -75 health.

Heh, I didn't realize you can apply two superiors of same type.

Sunyi · Jul 19, 2005, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

Its the same idea low health+protective spells+Healing breeze or mending and I ran and got spellbreaker to stop disenchants. Granted I use a Mo/Me and do arcane echo+spellbreaer for longer time. I am lvl 20 with him now (My first run I gained 10 levels). At lvl 20 its a piece of cake. I can even do the coldfirers if I try. I also use a few tricks to make my build more powerful (think refund points and multiple head picecs and weapons/focus)

So, let's say, when you buff yourself up with enchantments, you put on your armor with sup rune, your +1 hat and your +1 weapon, you cast all of them at attribute level 17, then you change your armor, adjust your attributes using the refund points for maximum damage and go to war? Awesome.

Mitsu Bishi · Jul 19, 2005, 11:30 AM // 11:30

The awesome thing about it - once you kill a few mobs, you've already regained your refund points

So you can do it over and over again. For easy runs, you don't mess around that much, but for really hard mobs, every bit counts.

JackOften · Jul 19, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

I never got the rounding either - did the math when I first saw the prot bond skill description, tested on expertise (didn't have a Mo primary at the time or the plat to afford a superior prot rune, loller), and didn't figure it would round favorably at 1.75.

However, turns out the rounding is pretty funky - it definitely doesn't truncate clean at something like 1.9 (for example, 16exp or 64% reduction on 5 energy still gives you 2 energy used and 3 with a 30% increase [which should be 2.7]), but for prot bond it works. My guess is that the number for protbond doesn't start at a clean 6 and end at a clean 3, hence making 3/12 = 0.25/lvl calculations false. Thats the only explanation really.

Sunyi · Jul 19, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JackOften

My guess is that the number for protbond doesn't start at a clean 6 and end at a clean 3, hence making 3/12 = 0.25/lvl calculations false. Thats the only explanation really.

Yeah, I think the same. Let's hope ANet won't re-calculate the formula...

Racthoh · Jul 19, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunyi

It doesn't work like you wrote. At 13 Protection (2,75 in my calculation) Protective Bond still takes 3 Energy. At 14 though (2,5 in my calculation) it will take away 2 Energy.

My guess was that rounding UP occours from 0.99 to 0.51 and rounding DOWN from 0.5 to 0.01. But with this logic you would get an Energy loss of 1 Energy per hit at 18 in Protection which is unreachable.

@Racthoh: could your Warrior and jelly's monk lay waste to the Underworld together?

Actually, 18 is possible. Some shields (I've only seen one or two) that have a chance for +1 when using skills. Although I guess the real question is whether or not they would be able to stack.

And as for my warrior being able to solo with Jelly, our skillsets somewhat conflict. Balthazar's would be mighty expensive to cast if it required 30% more energy.

Edit: Coincidently, I have a shield with +1 to protection prayers in my bag.

miteethor · Jul 19, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I've been working on this too - I like Divine Boon because with 105 hp it basically does a full heal every time, and with only 1/4 second casting time I can even get one off in a malestrom!! Also it means I don't need to spend anything in Healing Prayers. The Dryders are a bit too much to handle though - they take too long between casts so I have no energy regen. I also added Shield of Judgement - it's awesome for creating time windows to cast Balthazar's without interruption, and it does massive Holy damage (50 plus knockdown every time they attack) that ignores armor.

capitalist · Jul 19, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by miteethor

I've been working on this too - I like Divine Boon because with 105 hp it basically does a full heal every time, and with only 1/4 second casting time I can even get one off in a malestrom!! Also it means I don't need to spend anything in Healing Prayers. The Dryders are a bit too much to handle though - they take too long between casts so I have no energy regen. I also added Shield of Judgement - it's awesome for creating time windows to cast Balthazar's without interruption, and it does massive Holy damage (50 plus knockdown every time they attack) that ignores armor.

What skill set are you using? I see the OP build, but it would be cool to have a summarized Divine Boon / Shield of Judgement Build.

miteethor · Jul 19, 2005, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Zealots Fire
Protective Bond
Essense Bond
Balthazar's Spirit
Blessed Signet
Divine Boon
Balthazar's Aura
Shield of Judgement

All Sup runes

When casting, use Protection +1 offhand, protection headpiece

Protection: 12+4+1
Smiting 10+3
Divine 8+3

Then drop Protection 2 levels, put 1 in smiting and 2 in Divine. Then switch to Smiting Headgear and Smiting 20/20 staff with +1 wrapping

Smiting: 11+4
Protection: 10+3
Divine: 10+3

Shield of Judgement just owns. Massive damage at 50 holy every time they attack (including ranged attacks) and it lasts 20 seconds. Can kill most things just by itself. Add a Balthazar's every 15 seconds and everything dies.

jelly samwich · Jul 19, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Actually, 18 is possible. Some shields (I've only seen one or two) that have a chance for +1 when using skills. Although I guess the real question is whether or not they would be able to stack.

And as for my warrior being able to solo with Jelly, our skillsets somewhat conflict. Balthazar's would be mighty expensive to cast if it required 30% more energy.

Edit: Coincidently, I have a shield with +1 to protection prayers in my bag.

afaik sword/rods don't come with a +1 modifier? (I could be completely wrong).. i think this is the same case for enchantments last 20% longer (I could be compeltely wrong there too)

but saying that they did exist, the best you could get would be 20% chance and 20% chance so the odds of them going at the same time would be 4%?

its definately a cool idea to take advantage of the large amounts of XP and respec a bunch.. does lvl 17 mending give 5 pips of regen?

also some changes ive been thinking about-- maybe bringing in spell breaker somehow?

also peace and harmony:
Elite Enchantment spell. For 62 seconds, target ally gains +1 Energy rengeneration. Peace and harmony ends if player attacks or casts a spell that does not target an ally.
Cost: 5 At: 1 Cooldown:45

DrakeDeathscale · Jul 20, 2005, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by miteethor

Shield of Judgement just owns. Massive damage at 50 holy every time they attack (including ranged attacks) and it lasts 20 seconds. Can kill most things just by itself. Add a Balthazar's every 15 seconds and everything dies.

That build is interesting.. I have 2 problems with it though:

1. No Bonetti's. Bonetti's has saved my ass so many times against those damnable squids... I love it.

2. Knockdowns. Knockdowns for this are bad. Yes, they take 50 damage, but they aren't hitting you as often which kinda blows.

The Divine Boon version of Jelly's (AMAZING) build is much better IMO. Aataxes are easy either way, but popping on Bonetti's for a few seconds then spamming the hell out of Divine Boon kills those Grasping Darknesses EXTREMELY fast. With 16 smiting prayers they're taking 40 damage every 1/4-1/2 second... 80-160 DPS is a lot better than 50 and a knockdown, plus by the time you need energy they're either dead or bonetti's is ready for a quick tap.

Another note on fighting squids (Grasping Darknesses)... NEVER use Bal's Aura. ALWAYS put Zealot's fire up and cast Blessed Signet before going in. Until they're dead, keep spamming that divine boon. With their energy drain, you'll lose energy anyways. Might as well go towards hurting them. Even when energy is at 1-4, spam DB. Countless times I've been at 20 health and managed to squeak a DB through at the last second. Use bonetti's as often as possible.

Racthoh · Jul 20, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly samwich

afaik sword/rods don't come with a +1 modifier? (I could be completely wrong).. i think this is the same case for enchantments last 20% longer (I could be compeltely wrong there too)

Oh well that just ruins everything now doesn't it.

Black Raine · Jul 20, 2005, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakeDeathscale

The Divine Boon version of Jelly's (AMAZING) build is much better IMO. Aataxes are easy either way, but popping on Bonetti's for a few seconds then spamming the hell out of Divine Boon kills those Grasping Darknesses EXTREMELY fast. With 16 smiting prayers they're taking 40 damage every 1/4-1/2 second... 80-160 DPS is a lot better than 50 and a knockdown, plus by the time you need energy they're either dead or bonetti's is ready for a quick tap.

You forget (or never knew) that there is a .75 second after cast so you can only use Divine Boon every second, not every 1/4 of a second.

Sunyi · Jul 20, 2005, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly samwich

afaik sword/rods don't come with a +1 modifier? (I could be completely wrong).. i think this is the same case for enchantments last 20% longer (I could be compeltely wrong there too)

I think you are right, I've never seen a weapon/rod/wand that gives +1 to an attribute. I use a collector's protective icon with +1 to Protection (20%)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly samwich

its definately a cool idea to take advantage of the large amounts of XP and respec a bunch.. does lvl 17 mending give 5 pips of regen?

Mending:
"While you maintain this enchantment, target ally gains health regeneration of +1-3."

So, +1 at 0 Healing Prayers, +3 at 12 Healing Prayers, which gives 2/12 = +0,17 pips of regen per point invested. I guess you can have +4 regen at 15 (at that point you have a theoritical +3,5 pips of regen which might be rounded up to +4...)
One thing is sure though, you can't have +5 pips of regen even with 18 points in Healing.

Zakarr · Jul 20, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

This build is fantastic! I can solo farm in other places too where I couldn't for example with E/Mo. Try UW as soon as Europe has a favor. Might take some time.

Unfortunately this won't last long. ArenaNET is going to nerf this down. It is too powerful.

jelly samwich · Jul 20, 2005, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunyi

Mending:
"While you maintain this enchantment, target ally gains health regeneration of +1-3."

So, +1 at 0 Healing Prayers, +3 at 12 Healing Prayers, which gives 2/12 = +0,17 pips of regen per point invested. I guess you can have +4 regen at 15 (at that point you have a theoritical +3,5 pips of regen which might be rounded up to +4...)
One thing is sure though, you can't have +5 pips of regen even with 18 points in Healing.

its +3 at 8 healing prayers i believe (my skill calc agrees w/ you but ingame is what matters).. 13 gives the +4 regen... im going to try and track down a +1 healing prayers 20% and see if it works..

edit** yeah lvl 17 mending still yields 4 pipes

Sunyi · Jul 20, 2005, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly samwich

its +3 at 8 healing prayers i believe (my skill calc agrees w/ you but ingame is what matters).. 13 gives the +4 regen... im going to try and track down a +1 healing prayers 20% and see if it works..

If Mending was enough to keep you alive and Balthazar's Spirit alone could counter the energy loss from Protective Bond you would be able to build a godly character (against melee-heavy, non-disenchanting opponents, at least) that ANet would nerf the day it appears.

Syncrosonix · Jul 20, 2005, 10:43 AM // 10:43

i'm curious, how many hours of trial and error did it take to finally make things happen? that's impressive nonetheless.

miteethor · Jul 20, 2005, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakeDeathscale

That build is interesting.. I have 2 problems with it though:

1. No Bonetti's. Bonetti's has saved my ass so many times against those damnable squids... I love it.

2. Knockdowns. Knockdowns for this are bad. Yes, they take 50 damage, but they aren't hitting you as often which kinda blows.

The Divine Boon version of Jelly's (AMAZING) build is much better IMO. Aataxes are easy either way, but popping on Bonetti's for a few seconds then spamming the hell out of Divine Boon kills those Grasping Darknesses EXTREMELY fast. With 16 smiting prayers they're taking 40 damage every 1/4-1/2 second... 80-160 DPS is a lot better than 50 and a knockdown, plus by the time you need energy they're either dead or bonetti's is ready for a quick tap.

Another note on fighting squids (Grasping Darknesses)... NEVER use Bal's Aura. ALWAYS put Zealot's fire up and cast Blessed Signet before going in. Until they're dead, keep spamming that divine boon. With their energy drain, you'll lose energy anyways. Might as well go towards hurting them. Even when energy is at 1-4, spam DB. Countless times I've been at 20 health and managed to squeak a DB through at the last second. Use bonetti's as often as possible.

I've been testing and Shield can still work with Bonettis. Since Divine Boon is really only 1 time per second you are looking at 40 dps instead of 160. Shield of Judgement has some things going for it:

1. Holy damage penetrates armor. Zealot's only does 1/3 damage on a highly armored character while Shield does full
2. Knockdown = window of opportunity. I don't know how many times my Balthazar's Aura has been interrupted against a mob of 6, and Shield of Judgement can give you the chance to cast 2 of them, which is 500 points of area damage plus the Shield itelf, which would be about 300-400 depending on how fast they attack.
3. Even with Shield on , Bonettis charges up to full bar just fine.
4. Ranged - Shield hurts those annoying ranged attackers just the same as melee, and knocks them down as well.

Some things Divine Boon has going for it:

1. Don't need to spend anything on healing, put it all in Divine Favor
2. 1/4 second cast means I can heal inside a malestrom
3. Once it's in effect, ANYTHING I cast also fully heals me from an almost empty bar. This means shield/Balthazar's/Zealots will all do a full heal when I cast them

I have to say after switching to Bonettis I never have any energy problems. I hadn't considered it for my testing because I didn't have the W secondary, but it only took a few minutes to get switched over.

For pure killing speed, however, I still prefer the 2-man team. Although I can run in front now, freeing up my nuker to cast anything he wants without fear of interruption. All I can say is Spiteful Spirit owns underworld like no other.

Dudededu · Jul 20, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Curse you for posting this!!!
This isnt new actually. Ive been doing these for so long. Hell I learned it from 2 other monks whove been doing it longer still. Only reason Ive never posted was fear of it getting nerfed.

Im so going on a killing spree before next patch.